General observations coming from an outsider


#21

I think you have all of us wrong. We are a open minded community that has always helped others.

Enough said
Casey


#22

Nobody here is feeling threatened and I’ve never seen a discussion take this tone since the forum started. This is a friendly place with open discussion. It doesn’t matter a jot to me which design app you choose to use. That is your choice.

As somebody who has worked in the past with RW I merely wanted to point out that any statement about Blocs being limited should really be based on more than a few days experience.


#23

Hey, I completely understand your point and don’t think you need to defend your comments or viewpoint. It offers a great insight and will surely help us here at Blocs HQ.

However, I think some of the comments by the regulars may have been taken the wrong way, folks here are just trying to highlight the good points of Blocs and they are passionate about it.

I also agree it has gone off topic now regarding age etc.


#24

Hi Rob @FlexitarianFixie

Depending on people’s background and needs (and again I am not and have never been talking about age here) the merits of each application would appear differently. Someone who would have the time and the desire to dive a little further would probably prefer Blocs over RW. That’s it.

Sad you read my post differently.

MDS


#25

Fine, I will answer one more time and after that, I will maintain “radio-silence” on this topic.

I have no doubts about willingness of members of this forum to help newcomers and/or seasoned Blocs’ users. That is not a problem at all.

I agree completely. I am not getting into details of both applications. I don’t have expertise in Blocs to do that. My observations are general.

Thank you for that, Norm. I also thought that my opinions didn’t need to be defended. Nor that they could be taken as attacks on anybody or anything. I tend to discuss things on-topic and on-merit, always trying to understand the point of view of people I am having a discussion with. Personal considerations are always the last thing on my mind.

No, MDS, in a case like that, I would choose hand-coding over Blocs and over RW.

Thank you all for a lively discussion, even if it didn’t go exactly as I hoped for.


#26

Well then you should have open the discussion to Blocs, RW and hand-coding.

MDS


#27

Welcome to the Blocs forum @FlexitarianFixie.

This is my take away from reading your comments.

It seems fair to say that maybe so far you really have not taken the time to get to know the app or the benefits it offers and are only seeing the shortcomings based upon your needs or previous workflow.

So from what you perceive of the app you already want more without really truly knowing its workflow or abilities regarding your stated limited understanding of the app vs your existing requirements from the other app.

Given all those comments, it seems your current app/workflow/investment remains your best option presently even amongst its various flaws or shortcomings which might have brought you here. Until Blocs reaches your expectations for plugins, features, etc., maybe its still needed that you continue using your current app due to your desire, reliance and investment of using add-ons/stacks.

In the meantime simply use each app to their abilities for your project requirements. Keep learning Blocs and the benefits it can offer you - until it further meets your overall requirements as it matures.

Until Blocs becomes further advanced, such topics won’t really yield any definitive conclusions. I’m sure everyone has various hopes and dreams for Blocs, 3rd party development, templates, tutorials, and the entire ecosystem surrounding Blocs. No doubt Blocs current features are what gravitate people towards it, so that speaks favorably towards what it offers already.

But until it matures further such threads will yield similar results. I can recall many other similar discussions have taken place over time by new or existing users. It’s nothing against you, its just the nature of such threads.

:wink:


#28

Hi Rob, @FlexitarianFixie

I think it’s good to share views from outside experience, without such views Blocs may not reach higher levels of potential. I’m sure some of those ideas may percolate through to tweaks and additions later down the line. So please continue to use Blocs :slight_smile:

I used RW for around 10 years and whilst it worked and I made it work quite successfully, I much prefer the Blocs software and how it does things out the box. I also prefer this community, so very helpful and norm’s involvement with the community is very impressive.

Please also bear in mind that with so many nationalities using the forum and the common tongue of English, we all have a slightly different tonal approach to the language and sometimes things get misconstrued a little.

Have a great day!


#29

Having used Mambo and Joomla for a long time I’m very concerned about plugins from other parties. Because most hacks are made by plugins from developers who do not update their piece of work.

Having said that, I’m new here. :slight_smile:


#30

The problem isn’t plugins, it is a system that relies on pluggins to do basic stuff that should have been provided in the first place in the core app, I would argue.

RapidWeaver has been mentioned and that is a good example, that needs the stacks plugin to allow more plugins to do often quite basic stuff. For example, there were many stacks to add FontAwesome icons and consequently multiple versions of different versions can be loaded by outdated “plugins” Blocs already provides a great wealth of the basic stuff and doesn’t require an additional layer such as stacks to allow the plugins to work.

Another example is how useful Photoshop Plugins are and you don’t read constant reports of Photoshop being rubbish because of it’s plugins.

Good plugs built around a clever API are a very good thing IMHO.


#31

The way RW does it is the reason it was not recommended to me. I posted a ‘hello’ message that will explain I’m very new to Blocs (started using Blocs a week ago).


#32

I have never used Rapid Weaver. I installed a test version about 9 months ago and uninstalled it after 5 minutes. I felt like I was working back in the stone age.

I have used Dreamweaver for years and can code when necessary. I used Muse for 3-4 years, and while I loved the layout freedom, I was often totally p**ed off because some 3rd party add-on ruined the code of another 3rd party add-on. Also the output-code was bloated and didn’t conform to a lot of standards.

I have been using Blocs for about 4 months now. I have been able to tweak things to achieve about 90% some of the things you listed like : local fonts, multiple columns, accordions, mega menus, CSS-grid, cookie managers, etc. Other things I’ve been able to master in the last 4 months: full screen video with a fallback image for mobile (blocs out of the box + my own customizing), same height columns regardless of content, etc. …

And as a graphic designer, I have literally had so much fun customizing and pimping standard bootstrap items like buttons, feature cards, team members, heros, etc.

And I haven’t had so much fun tweaking code in a long time! For me personally, Blocs is just the right combination of Drag n Drop (Brics) and CSS-Code tweaking


#33

Aloha:

As a longtime RW user that has recently come to Blocs I found this thread very enlightening.

I’m fairly convinced after just a short time with Blocs that in the long run it is going to be a better solution for my needs. While Blocs is very easy to learn there are a lot of little details that are a lot harder to discern. From my perspective one of the main negatives I find with Blocs is documentation. I’m one of those people that likes to read the manual, while there is a lot of very good basic information on how to use Blocs there is not enough deep diving and more importantly examples on how to accomplish some of the less obvious stuff.

It is very apparent that most of this obvious stuff is easy to accomplish in Blocs once you have figured out or been told how to accomplish it. But some of it is not that “discoverable”, which is why for me documentation is critical. I have learnt a huge amount through experimentation but that takes time. There are some interesting looking course from Eldar that certainly look like they will be a huge help in filling some of the holes.

For me the the best way that I have for understanding and learning Blocs is to try an replicate one of the sites I have built in Rapidweaver. So far I have not been able to reproduce these sites, not necessarily due to any limitations in Blocs (it is very capable, more so than RW), but mainly due to the fact that I cannot find out how to do certain things, which can quickly become frustrating.

So my take on the comparison between RW and Blocs is that hands down I’m convinced that Blocs is the future for me. It is way faster, more fluid, more flexible, more powerful, and more complete than RW. But for me the devil is in the details, there are so many small details that I just am unable to discover and this is a little frustrating.

I’m sure this wonderful forum will become a useful resource but you might get very tired of all the questions I would be asking. I have asked a couple already and still awaiting some answers. For me the learning process is severely hampered if I have to rely on a forum for information as sometimes it can take a long time for an adequate reply show up. I’m not that patient as I what to make progress so when I run into a problem I want an answer. Another reason why for me documentation is so critical as I find looking for answers in the documentation can be rewarding as you learn other stuff on the way.

Please don’t get me wrong I’m not knocking the documentation provided with Blocs, I would just like to see a lot more of it especially on the more esoteric stuff.

If I could have one wish to make me more successful with blocks it would be the availability of a comprehensive COOKBOOK, with detailed explanations of how to accomplish very specific tasks! All of which I know can be done in Blocs ,but first I need to know how to get there.

Blocs rocs!

Forgot to add some links to sites I’ve built with RW and Stacks that I will be attempting to replicate in Blocs.

HANALEI FINS
GEARBOX Surf


#34

I fully agree about the lack of documentation. It has always been the weakest point in Blocs coming from RW myself. Part of the problem has been the rocket powered rate of progress with Blocs, because it has undergone massive changes over the last 12 months and anything you studied back then likely has no resemblance to what you see now.

To give some perspective, Realmac charges customers to access their videos, which I always found pretty outrageous. They also rely on stack developers to pick up a lot of the slack both in features and documentation for their add-ons. This is starting to become less of a problem now that the Blocs forums have become busier, but I agree it needs some improvement.

If you want to take a crash course Eldar produces a paid video course for Blocs, but quite a large part of Blocs is simply understanding the basic concepts and experiment by trying everything, rather than wondering why it doesn’t work like RW.

I actually opened an old project done in RW yesterday to make a small adjustment and wanted to be out of there as quickly as possible. The cluttered interface of the stacks and freakishly slow page previews was like a trip through hell after Blocs 3.


#35

I have to agree now when I go back to work in RW it becomes very frustrating due to how slow everything is, even minor tweaks seem to take forever. This was another of the many reasons I am so excited about Blocs.

It does look like the courses Eldar provides are going to become essential but in previewing some of the ones that were done for Blocs 2 they are not that relevant to Blocs 3. So I will have to see how he goes with the new ones he has planned for this year.

For sure another attraction with Blocs is the fact that it is being actively developed and moving forward rapidly, that is critical for me and another thing I have against RW is the slow pace of advancement over there.


#36

You might be surprised at how many RW users have made their way over here and it’s the same story every time. First they struggle with the lack of documentation, then they hate missing their favourite two or three stacks, but if they persevere for a while and build a couple sites wild horses wouldn’t drag them back to RW.

Personally I found Blocs 2 quite frustrating on various levels and only persevered, so I could hit the ground running with Blocs 3. The current version is a totally different beast from what we had 6 months ago. It’s so much more stable with lots more features and more intuitive. You really need to get stuck in with those custom classes.

The developer API is undergoing an overhaul, so I would expect to see more advanced custom brics in a few months time and there are some huge updates coming to Blocs 3. It is really worth sticking around.


#37

I’m most certainly planning on sticking around I can see nothing but upsides!

You are right about those custom classes, that is something else, very powerful, but that is where the documentation is hurting me the most. Learning how to leverage them is critical it seems.


#38

Just go wild with custom classes and experiment. Most changes can be seen in real time while in edit mode and in a worst case scenario just hit the delete button.


#39

Great sites BTW. I see you tucked into the new Thunder Pack. Blocs can build the 2 sites with ease and you won’t have the restrictions of Foundry.

PS You have quite a few errors on Hanalei Fins site you probably need to sort out.


#40

Hey, welcome and it’s good to have you with us :pray:

The Blocs documentation is a work in progress, however, we have almost 120 posts in our knowledge base now and it’s growing weekly.

Can you be specific on the basics you want documentation for?

I’ll be honest, when I compare the Blocs docs to all of the other web design apps on the Mac, ours are some of the most complete, so I’m always eager to hear specifics of what you can’t find.