Guys, fact is that version one had no bugs to be fixed. There was a compatibility issue not with Blocs app but with another bric, caused not only by certain classes but for the fact that both brics use the same library on different versions. This is a compatibility issue, not a bug. Not everything is a bug.
Also note that this compatibility issue was not easy to fix. I had to re-work almost the whole bric, bring to the latest version of swiper.js, tested re-tested and beta tested. In between I added many nice options to the new version. That took me much time, hence the upgrade tag.
If Norm would charge for every single bug, issue, conflict and resolve it as a paid upgrade. NONE of us will be here right now. Thankfully Norm is not doing that. So yes, developers if you choose to look down on users and rather bank on issues. I do have an option to buy or not buy your product regardless of how cool or great your product is.
@Lucas mind you this is a paid bric that we saw value and need for. if this was a free bric, I will say you have every right to do whatever, hell you can even choose not to do anything about it. Just know you are not getting my money moving forward, for you to choose to bank on such an issue. it is a problem
I appreciate the hard work making Swiper 2 bug-free. I try and support all developers creating add-ons for Blocs. I like to think each is another tool for creating something different with Blocs.
I purchased Swiper when it first came out and due to its incompatibility with Card Designer I can say I’ve never used it in a project. The new version does improve some features, but for me, it falls short in features that I would be willing to pay for an upgrade. I personally was surprised Swiper was a paid upgrade.
I’m not in any way trying to insult any of the developers. I’ll bet if the developers had to figure the time they spent creating add-ons (Card Designer, Volt CMS, Swiper, even Norm) they are probably making pennies on the hours it took to create.
I appreciate these developers’ hard work trying to give the Blocs community something different. If you think about it, these developers have created these add-ons mostly from our (community) request for features.
Let’s be fair, I don’t think any developer is trying to take advantage of us putting out a paid upgrade.
It’s a simple choice if you want the new version then pay the upgrade.
@casey1823 great point. Let me ask. Will you be happy if Norm charges for every bug, issue, conflict?
All we ask for is simple: Version 1 issue that was resolved should be free Version 2 should be a pay upgrade.
Is that too much to ask?
We are all patiently waiting for blocs 4 and we will buy blocs 4 and support Norm when its released.
But for the meanwhile what is Norm doing for version 3?
Fixing issues and resolving conflicts. Is Norm charging for those issues?
Hey @Lucas, thanks for your explanation. I understand it and even liked it. BUT, as far as I understood, the situation was following: Swiper v.1 had the incompatibility with some other brick for quite some time. Users were unhappy about it, but it is what it is, right?
Meanwhile you’ve been working hard on new feature-rich Swiper v.2 and also found a fix for that incompatibility feature. So, why not apply the fix to the afflicted users of v.1 AND promote it as a feature in v.2?
Don’t you think those paying users of version 1 would really appreciate that gesture and maybe see the new features worth upgrading?
As I mentioned before, it’s all about support. At least from the user perspective, not developer’s…
IMHO.
Your comparison is really not fair. Blocs is a program and Swiper is a add-on.
No that’s not too much to ask, but unfortunately, the developer sees it differently.
I’d like to also clarify why I didn’t pay to upgrade. I really like Swiper, even if in my opinion it’s missing some features. Swiper is not something you are going to use on every website. I could see only using it on a few of my client’s sites.
Some of the other add-ons I can use on almost all my sites. Volt CMS, Card Designer, Read More is currently being used on some of my sites. These are tools that I feel I need.
So for me, I feel I originally supported Swiper, and it’s an add-on I like, but something I don’t really need. Would I upgrade if it was free, yes!
Post rarely takes a negative turn like this on the forum. I think that maybe some private messages to the developer would have gone a long way.
@MDS I agree with your assessment but you left out one important piece. Card Designer just had a new version with some greatly improved features and the developer gave existing license holders a free upgrade.
It is not because one developper provides a free update that all others have to do the same. Plus Swiper has been updated previously and free of charge.
Plus Swiper2 does come with a discount for those who have the original Swiper version.
Come on sometimes blocs add new features on the updates! Im sorry but I don’t see you are right! You are looking into the problem on a friend zone perspective!
I didn’t buy swiper 2 years ago! If it was built for blocs 2 and because the lag of maintenance the bric doesn’t play well with other brics stop charging money then!! Isn’t right t is to keep getting profits from a discontinued product! You are being unfair with your comparisons!
I have Swiper, Owl Carousel and Search and I don’t use any of them, for me was a total waste of money! I won’t make a site just with a slider you know! The Owl Carousel is super limited and the search what does it search? nothing just other pages. And how much each of those bric cost?
As I said before his brics are the most expensive on the store, with a bad support and a lack of maintenance. But we are cool here friendly and nice and now one never actually complains but enough is enough at least for me.
For me swiper 2 it’s a joke and a very bad one! I bought mine on Jul 2020!!!
Not at all! Maybe for you is fine to waste your money but not for me. I live in France not in Switzerland…
Im complaining as it is my right as consumer. Your comments have really no fundamentals at all! All you are trying to do is to legitimize a bad management. I have no issue with you and you have help me a lot in the past so let’s leave it here. We won’t agree as we seeing this situation from a two complete oposite extremes!
Myself and @Helen have spent some time today reading through this thread and do understand the frustration of the customer(@Stewie_Griffin) and also the standing point of the developer (@Lucas).
It is our understanding that before a purchase of the Swiper Bric is made, customers are asked to agree to the Terms and Conditions of sale.
These terms state the following:
Our products support most 3rd party software, namely themes and stacks for RapidWeaver and brics for Blocs app. However it is impossible to know whether all software work with our products. If a 3rd party software you use is not compatible with our products, let us know, and we will inspect it.
I appreciate the situation is frustrating for both parties, but our stand point on the matter is that, this is not a bug and is actually a compatibility issue.
As @lucas has made it clear in his sales terms, he cannot guarantee his product will work with all 3rd party products a user may use in combination with his.
Thank you @Norm! I think I have always referred as a compatibility issue . As I said before I bough mine on Jul 2020 and he knew already this issue and it could have been fixed before releasing swiper 2.
@Norm no one is denying this is as compatibility issue. Brics are bond to have conflicts, issues, bugs or whatever the case may be. The problem, we waited months for this issue to be resolved, just for us to pay for an upgrade…mind you, I personally emailed him sent a report on his website earlier this year, with no communication from his end. That is what resolved in creating the thread in may. that is the problem
The easiest solution would have been, resolving the issue in version 1 and then having a paid version 2 for the new features.
Yes, as a developer he can stick to his action, but this is not a good developer and user relationship. Banking on a user issue is not right.
This is not how you build a community. We paid for this bric because we understood the value and the need for it using BLOCS. Personally, I will now have trust issues when it comes to developers and its not right to question a developer’s relationship with its users. Whats the purpose of creating a bric if not to serve users?
To make things worse some members took this issue personal and started insulting users. How does it make things right? As @Stewie_Griffin mentioned, these members have been helpful in the forums so I personally did not take the insults to heart. We have every right to share constructive opinions all for the the en-betterment of the community.
Service is sold with the product together and not be charged extra. Otherwise it’s not service.
It does not matter how much time has to go by until a better version of a product comes out and how other entities/developers/companies have already produced newer and other versions and upgrades in between. I paid for a specific product. If it does not play well with other products that I must also use — solve it. Make it compatible. It’s customer service. That’s when a customer buys again from you, because you really help them.
Lucas, you did not reply in timely manner to the problem notification of your customer. Then you went on holidays without informing your customer before and about a delay in fixing this problem. You did not inform them that you are not willing to eradicate the problem as incompatibility is excluded, which you could have. Rather it seemed that you indeed were willing to eradicate the problem with an upgrade, except you did not tell them they have to pay for it.
Of course you don’t have to do anything or give your word to anything. Of course you exclude compatibility problems with other brics. But customer service is part of business like writing e-mails, paying taxes, hunting for new customers, paying for PR etc… Customer service is also an ethical thing. Customer service means helping a customer with his problem, regardless if you are right or not (of course up to a certain limit).
These guys here (@kwakukwaku, @Stewie_Griffin) at least kept communicating. The worst thing is, if a customer becomes silent, that’s when you don’t hear from your disappointed customer ever again. Plus, he will not have nice words about you and your business to others. If you would have communicated you cannot fix the problem anymore in version 1 but give these two parties who complained a free version 2 product everything would have been solved. Instead now you lost them.
Like a Shakespearian drama: Much ado about nothing (nothing in the sense of gossip or word of mouth).
Thank you very much for your sincere response. @Lucas could have clearly communicated to us. The issue is going to be part of a paid upgrade. Hey what choose will we have? There was no proper communication.
@Norm with all due respect, if you do tolerate users here offending and insulting users for giving constructive criticism, then this platform is not an open, respectful platform to share our thoughts and show appreciation for BLOCS.
Just read all this and WOW! its an interesting read.
I work in the events industry and have sat on many many conferences we have done where these types of situations come up in question and I have 2 friends in law and spoke to them quickly as was not sure if its different from digital goods vs physical.
(PLEASE DO NOT BE OFFENDED IF IT UPSETS ANYONE !!)
Swiper 1 was released and worked, but had incompatibility issues along side another bric. This was brought to the attention of the developer (@Lucas) The issue was mentioned to the developer of the incompatible bric. Now if this left to run its course and not change and a simple statement that please do not use with conflicting brics - then this would have been fine because as a stand alone product this is fine within Blocs.
The developer of Swiper 1 then made a “statement” that this will be fixed for all users. Now this is where the developer is liable for a charged product as this now is including a service within the original purchase. So @Stewie_Griffin and others who bought swiper 1 should get the issue that is promised on swiper 1 fixed, regardless if this is works stand alone or even with the conflicted bric(s). The developer has a lawfully duty to delivery the promised goods within the original purchase price and no additional charge.
Now then - where we are now, @Lucas has done from what we can all see and agree with a bloody amazing job on swiper 2 and we are ALL grateful of his work on this as we do need more brics/toys to play with!. Now i 100% understand what lucas has done here by doing the update and spending time in making this even much more better and when the right project comes up for me - i will 100% buy this as I know Lucas from the Rapidweaver days and he is a top guy. But I the promise has been made on swiper 1 so my conclusion is below.
Owners of Swiper 1 should have the option of an updated version for free and then close the development for swiper 1. i’m not a developer - but can’t swiper 2 be stripped back of all the extra features that swiper 1 didn’t have - and released as swiper 1 - final edit.
Swiper 2 is released as it is now, discounted for swiper 1 buyers and full price for new = This is ONLY if point 1 is offered.
If point 1 can NOT be offered then Swiper 2 should be given FREE for all buyers of swiper 1 and do as some developers do - have a donation tab where users who did not have any issues with swiper 1 can donate and have a recommended fee under it. And all new buyers have this at full cost.
I am not taking sides here - and I do get where people who have had issues are coming from - but also I believe Lucas has done a great job on Swiper 2.
@Norm is in the clear with this guys - reading the terms , this is a platform for us all to enjoy!
This is my view all - and not judging anyone - so take a ‘swipe’ at me !
